Saturday, 28 July 2012

FFS, Stop Lying

Over at SUZYALLCAPSLOCK's Fetal Pr0n Gore Fest, the top three categories/tags are prolife, abortion, and fetal rights. So maybe it's just a twitch when SHE tags nearly all HER tweets about Woodworth's Wank, aka M312, aka The When Does a Blob of Tissue's Rights Outweigh the Incubator's Rights Motion with #fetalrights.

Right? Just an automatic typing twitch. SHE's feeling revved and types #fetalrights because it feels gooooood.

Because M312 is NOT about abortion.


Let's look into fetal rights.
Much opposition to legal abortion in the West is based on a concern for fetal rights. Similarly many pro-choice groups oppose fetal rights, even when they do not impinge directly on the abortion issue, because they perceive this as a slippery slope strategy to restricting abortions.
Oh dear. 'Fetal rights' and 'abortion' together right there. Also. 'Slippery slope'.

Last night, SHE tweeted:

SHE has me blocked like most of the gutless yobs who are whining for the Debate, but block anyone who comes back with facts or uncomfortable questions. Also, being blocked is a ginormous pain in the butt. I can't retweet, can't embed, can't expand the conversation, i.e. see the context...

I replied:

I've repeated it at least three times since and it's been retweeted a few times too.

There's been no reply.

So, again I do the fetus fetishists' research for them. Back to wiki.
I found four countries that have enshrined fetal rights in law: some US states, Iran, Ireland, and Germany. The case in Germany is a bit twisty.
In 1993, the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany held that the constitution guaranteed a right to life from conception, but that it is within the discretion of parliament not to punish abortion in the first trimester, providing that women agreed to undergo special counselling designed to discourage termination and "protect unborn life".[citation needed] The intermediate decision was the result of an attempt to join East Germany's abortion law to that of West Germany after reunification in 1990.
Ireland is no surprise. The case in Iran is also a bit twisty.

And we know how fetal rights play out in the US. In the ipso facto criminalization of pregnancy.

Under the heading 'Behavioral intervention', wiki says:
No U.S. state has enacted a law which criminalizes specific behavior during pregnancy, but, nonetheless, it has been estimated that at least 200 American women have been criminally prosecuted or arrested under existing child abuse statutes for allegedly bringing about harm in-utero through their conduct during pregnancy. Reasons for pressing charges included use of illicit drugs, consumption of alcohol, and failure to comply with a doctor's order of bedrest or caesarean section. Drug addicts have been accused of "supplying drugs to a minor" through unintentional chemical subjection via the umbilical cord. Others have been charged with assault with a deadly weapon with the "deadly weapon" in question being an illegal drug. Minnesota, Wisconsin and South Dakota allow women who continue to use substances while pregnant to be civilly committed. Some states require that medical providers report any infant who is born with a physical dependency, or who tests positive for residual traces of alcohol or drugs, to child welfare authorities.
Giving fetuses rights takes rights away from women. Moreover, fetal rights creates a new class of people -- pregnant people.

Every pregnant person would be subject to an entirely different regime of law.

The fetus fetishists know this. Are okey-dokey with it.

But continue to lie that Woodworth's Wank is NOT about abortion and women's rights.

It bloody well is.


JJ said...

I started posting a comment but it was so long that I think I'll make it a blog post at my place & link back here. When I wake up a little more. (Hurry Coffee, do your thing!)

In an nutshell, US fetushists have a lot of slick marketing people on the abortion case & north of the border they borrow what they can: what they're doing with M312 is a strategy i recognize (from my other life as a Slick Marketing Person, ha).

JeninCanada said...

She has me blocked as well; I hadn't even seen that tweet until just now reading your post. What a logic fail; if m312 finds that fetuses are 'human beings'/person, guess what happens next? The slippery slope happens and fetuses will gain personhood rights, which means women will lose rights. When faced with this simple logic most fetus fetishists just sit there gaping. I honestly think a few of them just don't get it, how bad it could get for women, but the majority, like you said, just don't care.

fern hill said...

Right now in Ontario, fetus fetishists are airing US anti-abortion tv commercials with slightly changed voice-over.

Anonymous said...

I guess I'm in this 'blocked' club as well. Still have picture of her statement that she 'would kill a toddler before a fetus' though :)

As far as I'm concerned, if our SCC has not been poisoned to such a corrupt degree by this 'Harper Government' - that even if they did try to impose such a law, would not stand-up to Charter/Personhood/SCC challenge. However, as your blog information clearly demonstrates, under a 'theocracy' it can/could happen here in Canada, considering this Reform Party Evangelical Extreme Right roots - aka cpc and it's Reform contamination.

However, there is no doubt in my mind this would be political suicide for this questionable 'majority' government. That women would be so outraged, that a repeat of the 70s & 80s would be inevitable. To further add to the fervor would be multiple generations of women & men demanding Science & Law prevail, hence, bigger movement than even the 2nd wave movement.

Again, excellent info Fern! I knew you wouldn't get an answer from Rosy on this question, and would have to get the answers for yourself. The up side of Rosy's inability to provide credible info results with you promulgating factual and veridical answers:) It seems to be a pervasive tactic by Rosy & all anti-choicers, that it is impossible to get real, factual, scientific or legal answers; which equates to the pious banality we are all experiencing on the m312 site.

Note: As far as this ad campaign, I have yet to receive a response from CTV.

PS: Google is demanding my phone number in order to send me a confirm text number to post under my Yahoo Account. I refuse to do this. Therefore, I am submitting this under my Twitter name, however, states 'anonymous'. If anyone knows how to get past this considerable invasion of privacy and personal info, please let me know:)



choice joyce said...

Three other examples of countries that enshrine "life from conception" in their laws or constitutions include Nicaragua, Poland, and Hungary. There may be others, these are off the top of my head.

Abortion is completely illegal in Nicaragua and almost completely illegal in Poland. In Hungary, at the same time that the gov't added a new "life from conception" clause to the constitution last year, it launched an anti-abortion campaign:’s-government-to-launch-anti-abortion-campaign/

Fetal rights and anti-abortion restrictions are conjoined twins.

choice joyce said...

Oh wait... two more: Costa Rica and Kenya. Abortion is severely restricted in both countries.

In my article a few months back on how Woodworth's Wank would contravene international global human rights protections
(, I mention: "prenatal legal protections are the core foundation and trigger for anti-abortion laws" and explain why.

Anonymous said...

SUZYALLCAPS may not see the connection but Stephanie Gray from the Canadian Centre for Bioethical Reform said in a CBC interview in Kelowna (enroute with the fetusmobile - where the hell is it?)that women who have abortions should be tried for murder or treated like they are insane, like women who drown their kids. She seems to draw a straight line from M312 to jail without question.

Beijing York said...

Front Porch Strategies, the campaign experts that were involved with a number of 2011 election campaigns including Fantino's, are spearheading the Heartbeat movement in the US. Basically it would make abortion a crime as soon as the heartbeat of a fetus is detected. The Doppler sonogram is being used to determine a heart beat at about 4-5 weeks (around the time a women usually confirms that she is pregnant).

Fetal pain laws are another variation to the theme of humanizing fetuses. There is no proof of when pain is detected but some studies have dismissed there being any chance of the nervous system being developed enough for this before 4 weeks.

Other sciencey stuff that may come into play might include gender determination and how certain communities are targeting female fetuses.

The person hood laws are even more extreme, basically criminalizing abortion with no exception and potentially curtailing contraception and stem cell research. Also, some of these draconian proposal include provisions for punishing pre-natal murder, including miscarriages deemed to have been caused by human involvement.

This is a blatant attack on women's rights. Woodworth and a large number of his fellow MPs are theocrats and this motion is evidence of where they want to take us.

fern hill said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fern hill said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fern hill said...

Screwed up on the link there.

fern hill said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fern hill said...

Weird. Can't get the html to embed. Cut and paste.

Anonymous said...

You can draw an even straighter line. Give a foetus 100% legal personhood. Bam! Pregnant women across the country are now guilty of false imprisonment and kidnapping.

There is a reason why there are different laws that cover different situations. If there were a specific problem with the legal code that affects a foetus, then why don't they just say what it is? The answer is that there is no problem. They just want to make abortions criminal while lying about it.

Anonymous said...

The "fetal pain" argument is very elastic since one of the justifications for circumcising infant boys with little or no anesthetic is that the infant's nervous system isn't developed enough to REALLY feel pain. He's just howling because that's what babies do.

fern hill said...

Let me introduce you to Fetus Bully.

e.a.f. said...

Woodworth & his woodies need to find something else to do with their lives. What they propose is simply a way to bring the abortion debate front & centre, once again. (oh its so boring after all these yrs.) Their aim is to try to take women's rights away from them. Women have spent a few hundred yrs. getting these rights but it has never sat well with some men. By bringing up "fetal rights", it in the end would as someone else has written here, create a new class of people, who would be subject to a different set of laws, pregnat women. Tht of course is a violation of our rights & freedoms. Woody & his woodies need to understnd women will not go back.

He really needs to understand women will always obtain abortions. The well to do women get them from a dr. or other qualified medical person. Women with no money go to back room butchers who leave them maimed, dead, etc.

In the early 1980s I spoke with a number of women in their 70's & 80s. They were all pro choice having seen what happened when women did not have access to medical procedures.

Woodworth & co. needs to focus on the children who are born already & ensure they get adequate medical care. He is part of a governmetn which plans on reducing the money given to provinces for their medical systems. This will endanger the lives of children & will prevent many women from receiving adequate prenatal care.

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