The saddest day to be a Canadian. As the orange crush does its dance, we head to the political grave. We have nothing. Just compromise and defeat.
Just shoot me, please. Women are screwed.
I'm with you fern hill. It'll be a long 4 years, but we will be back. Unfortunately, Canadians will lose so, so much for them to quit vote splitting.
I honestly don't know what to do right now. My heart is breaking for my dear, beloved Canada. I do not want to be ruled by ignorant, bigoted, corporatist troglodytes and bible-thumping clowns. I told my family some years ago when Bush became President that if I ever saw the same happen here I'd seriously consider leaving Canada; that day has now arrived with all it's nightmarish promise and I very well may have to go.N.
Fern, you're totally right. I voted 'strategically' for the first time in my life but, even though it may have been one of the rare times it worked, I came away feeling greasy for supporting a party and leadership I know are greasy. I think Layton has ushered in a Harper majority but, far worse, has left the progressive ranks terminally fractured. Henceforth I will fight his people every bit as hard as I fight the right.
We'll be back, but will there be anything left the next time Canadians go to the polls? Look back and see everything Harper perpetrated with a minority.Then imagine what he'll do now that he has a majority.Totally Fucked sums it up nicely.
Good f*cking god I was so hoping I was a Cassandra in my worry of a Conservative majority. Shit, I hate being right on this.Wow, the Dippers (whom I was once an active card-member cheerleader some time ago) may be dancing in the streets but shit we are screwed. Canadians are screwed big time because Ignatieff should never have been appointed f*cking leader of the LPC and because Layton should never have put so much effort in taking down the progressive Bloc. The only highlight of the night was May taking down Lunn. I don't even like Elizabeth May or what the Green have become but at least she took a Conservative incumbent down. Good on you, Liz.
There is a third group you forgot. Con vote is above the Con polling - by about the same amount Lib votes fell below Lib polling. The blue Libs vacated for the Cons in Ontario.
rofl. has yr head exploded yet?o happy day! harper has got exactly what he wanted.he's got his majority and he's destroyed the liberal party.not bad for a day's work!say good bye to the gun registry. say good bye to the vote subsidy (the liberals will be bankrupt before the year is over). now it's time to close the cbc, outlaw abortion, roll back gay rights! ;)what are you going to do for the next four... that's right, four years? i imagine there'll be a lot of weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth at rabble and progressivebloggers. i can hardly wait to gloat!
Don't blame the voters for vote splitting. Vote splitting is an inherent feature of our current electoral system. As for blaming the NDP, I can't help but note that the NDP was willing to work in coalition with the Liberals, but Ignatieff was not willing to reciprocate. Probably for fear of alienating Con-leaning members. So it's a bit ironic blaming the NDP for the Con victory.All parties do share some blame for supporting the abomination that is first-past-the-post, aka plurality voting. The Cons and Libs in federal government and the NDP in provincial government.My suggestion for all leftish, liberal or progressive parties is to unify behind a Pro Electoral Reform unification party. Then split into intellectually coherent smaller parties once we have a sensible system. I think either proportional representation or Condorcet systems will sufficiently kill vote splitting, to allow Canadians to vote their true beliefs.Like it or not, the Liberals are likely going the way of the Progressive Conservatives.
I am so sad for the pain this government is going to inflict on so many Canadians who are already down and about to get kicked some more. Hollow victory for the NDP. They won't get a lick of good done, up against a Harper majority.Let's see how fast the gun registry goes. Let's see how fast the CBC goes.Let's see how fast reproductive rights are tossed.This is just gonna be one-party rule, and Harper has just strengthened his Big Man Power Grip. I also do not foresee Quebec staying in Canada very long with what is about to happen.
It's worse than tea-party north. In fact, I'll say that Canada now makes the Donald Trumps look like raging Marxists.I honestly don't know how we'll survive here. I will likely lose my job because of this. I'm pretty sure that many are in the same boat I am.
Don't blame the voters for vote splitting. Vote splitting is an inherent feature of our current electoral system. As for blaming the NDP, I can't help but note that the NDP was willing to work in coalition with the Liberals, but Ignatieff was not willing to reciprocate. Probably for fear of alienating Con-leaning members. So it's a bit ironic blaming the NDP for the Con victory.All parties do share some blame for supporting the abomination that is first-past-the-post, aka plurality voting. The Cons and Libs in federal government and the NDP in provincial governments.My suggestion for all leftish, liberal or progressive parties is to unify behind a Pro Electoral Reform unification party. Then split into intellectually coherent smaller parties once we have a sensible system. I think either proportional representation or Condorcet systems will sufficiently kill vote splitting, to allow Canadians to vote their true beliefs.Like it or not, the Liberals are likely going the way of the Progressive Conservatives.
I was always proud to say "I'm Canadian". Now the country will be run by aged, fearmongering, misogynist, mostly male bigots. Who will go back into their caves, basements, RVs, Timmy's, and seniors' homes, only to re-emerge to fiddle the "majority" again in a few years.... Utterly revolting. It's time for a complete overhaul of our electoral system.
Um...do you think that more Bloc seats and fewer NDP seats would have caused anything other than...more Bloc seats and fewer NDP seats? Do you think that it would have meant fewer Conservative seats? I'm not at all sure how this lines up.The Conservatives were the beneficiaries of right-wing Liberals. And, a Conservative majority was inevitable either now or later, because the root cause, the Conservative vote---which is ultimately responsible for a Conservative government, don't you forget---is very solid in large parts of Canada, for various historical reasons.Why do you think you would have staved it off forever?
Blaming everyone but the liberals is not going to fix the problem.
So what's the solution? A two-party system like in the US? Never, ever being able to vote your conscience for fear of the Conservatives? Preventing people from being fully democratic and voting for the parties that represent their concerns best?
The Layton-Harper alliance got what they have been after since they first teamed up in 2004, the destruction of the Libs, the increase of Layton to the LOO, and a Harper majority. Too bad it comes at the cost of traditional Canadian progressive values and respect for rules of democracy there champ. While I do not know whether there was actual collusion between Layton and Harper for this goal from that point onwards, the ugly reality is that the actions of both make the appearance of such very apparent and the end result last night is one that both men have been after for themselves all along. The Libs are getting beating up by some for doing so poorly, but they ran against Harper, it was the NDP which ran against the Libs, especially after the debates almost only against the Libs, this despite Harper being the actual party in power with the record of contempt of Parliament and the far greater threat to all progressive values and democratic institutions than any Lib leader/party has ever and could ever have been.What really worries me is that Harper is going to be appointing AT LEAST three more Supreme Court of Canada judges (they hit mandatory retirement age within this term), and we will almost certainly end up losing our last defence against some truly dangerously regressive policies/laws being put into action by this Harper majority because of that. We no longer have that so called liberal beauracracy to restrain him, we never had a liberal media, and we will now almost certainly lose that liberal court. The next 4-5 years (because don't forget he can go up to 5 years in our system no matter what his election law that he ignored already says) are going to be some of the cruelest government Canadians have ever received from their government, hopefully that shocks them enough into understanding what they have truly empowered this week. The Dippers placed beating the Libs as more important than Harper and got what they were after, and in the process proved they are a party that places their own power and expediency ahead of their self proclaimed principles, in other words they are no better now than the Lib party they decried for this kind of behaviour for decades. However, somehow I doubt most Dippers will be willing/able to acknowledge this fundamental truth, how they can be so delusional as to believe otherwise I do not know but then I've never been a partisan of ANY party or leader despite the claims of many (especially Dippers) to the contrary.Well, the only question left to be answered is this election the death knell for the traditional progressive Canada or only the beginning of a long nightmarish struggle to wrench it back from the thieving grasp of the reactionary extreme right wing that has now gotten it's fingers firmly around it's throat. We shall see, and I don't expect the NDP to be much help in this, given that being LOO in a majority is essentially a powerless place to be, and they have proven by their actions where their true goals and aims are no matter what they say with their mouths.This is a sad and dangerous time in Canadian history, and the repercussions of this result will be far reaching, anyone that doesn't understand this much is clearly too ignorant to be someone to be taken seriously.
The Dippers placed beating the Libs as more important than Harper and got what they were after, and in the process proved they are a party that places their own power and expediency ahead of their self proclaimed principles, in other words they are no better now than the Lib party they decried for this kind of behaviour for decades. However, somehow I doubt most Dippers will be willing/able to acknowledge this fundamental truth, how they can be so delusional as to believe otherwise I do not know but then I've never been a partisan of ANY party or leader despite the claims of many (especially Dippers) to the contrary.It's clear from the extent of the destruction that the Liberals were very weak to begin with---in fact this result if anything suggests that the NDP approach was correct. Supposing you had held the Cons to a minority this time, by some miracle---do you think they would have evaporated? That there would be a time in which it would be safe to vote for the NDP again? If your strategy requires propping up Iggy ad infinitum when there is actually the possibility of a third party, then there is something wrong with your strategy.That's assuming that if the New Democrats hadn't performed the way that they did, you'd have been able to stave off the Conservatives, which is itself deeply dubious considering the solidity of the Cons lock on large parts of the country. Which is the elephant in the room. Conservative voters.
What Scotian said. He was far more eloquent than I'm feeling, but that's pretty much what I see in the vapors right now.
Dear Scotian:Plenty of servings.....of self-serving dished around here....So any political party that has the audicity to take votes away from the Liberal Party are simply traitors, collusionists, or ignorant dillusionists?Or anyone who is not a Libral supporter has no conception about decency, progressive values or democracy?You need to get a real grip....on a mirror.
anonymous:First FU, I have been on record for years as not being a partisan of any party including the Liberal party, so your comment is utterly idiotic and irrelevant thank you very much.Mandos:You missed the point, a point I have been making for years I might add, that if the NDP does not act like the Harper CPC is the greatest threat to their values and principles out there (which by any objective standard is so clearly the case there is no viable argument otherwise even with Ignatief let alone back with Dion) then most voters who are not political watchers like the tiny fraction of us who are will see that since the NDP aren't that worried about the Harper CPC then they can't be as bad as the rhetoric from the Libs and BQ (since they were a force until last night) and occasionally from the NDP would make them out to be. Also the media would if the NDP had been so focused on Harper unable to act as if Harper really wasn't that far out of the mainstream and made it harder for Harper to hide what he was truly doing.I was never about propping up the Libs or Ignatief Mandos, my sole concern has been preventing the horror which has now come to pass, and the NDP have played a large role in this reality coming about starting back in the days of the Martin minority government on through (which I might add you can find on my own blog Saundrie as well as in the archives of some of the bloggers from the Progblog role that were around back then and still are using the same blogging system and have retained comments). You see, I judge things in politics by actions, not words, and it is the actions of Layton (and the unwillingness of the rest of the party to tell him different) where Harper is concerned in his lust to power and defeat of the Libs at ANY cost while claiming he and his party are the different party of principles (which is inherently a contradiction when you place power gaining ahead of defending said principles from the greatest threat they have ever seen) first that fuels my comments, my anger, rage, contempt, and yes bitterness. It is *NOT* because I am a Liberal partisan, and quite honestly I have HAD IT with Dippers resorting to that simple dismissal despite my multiple statements to the contrary! You all have been doing that to evade your guilt in creating the Harper government and now majority for years now and it doesn't change the reality that this result is at least as much on your hands as it is on any other party's and it is long past time you started facing reality about it instead of this kind of deluded conduct!!You will never find any party logo or membership on my blog. You will not find any post where I have claimed to be a partisan of a party. You will find little other than opposition to Harper and listings of his faults and dangers. You will also find my thoughts on how he would get to majority, a result I saw happen last night. So get this through your head...I AM NOT A LIBERAL! I may vote Liberal from time to time, I also used to vote PCPC and NDP too, both on multiple occasions, I am what used to be a centrist swing voter that voted according to the issues, leaders, and local candidates of the election in question...you know what used to be the norm in this country. I will admit I have voted Lib lately, but that is because they are the only party left to me with the PCPC gone and the NDP led by a madman more interested in power than in protecting Canadian values. There is a difference though in voting a certain way and in being a supporter/partisan, and I could do so because I knew my riding was not in any risk of going CPC, otherwise I would have held my nose and voted NDP to prevent a CPC win, because I do practice what I preach unlike Layton.
My greatest fear is they'll start selling our water to pay for their warplanes.
Ultimately, it seems that some people do not have to vote Liberal....in order to share the same ole "culture of entitlement"
I for one am not accusing you of being a partisan at all. If anything, I think the problem is the opposite. Your political strategy is entirely based on preventing a particular movement from coming to power by any means necessary. I suggest that if everything hinges on that kind of continuously defensive strategy, you've already lost. What if you had staved them off this time? Would you have been able to do it the next time? Would they have somehow dissipated on their own?No, they had a lot of long-term momentum behind them. The only way to defeat their agenda is to build a movement with a positive vision behind it. Unfortunately, all movement-building exercises distract from the detailed manoeuvring required to keep them out of power, manoeuvring that was getting more and more complex and unmanageable with every election as more and more people actually wanted them to win.
You are right, Mandos. I was just hoping to hold them to another minority, while the progressives got their shit together. Another minority would have been curtains for Stevie Peevie as leader, maybe giving us some more time to figure out what's next.And we do have to figure out what's next and build that progressive movement. The Sixth Estate has made a start.
Mandos: You wanna guest-blog all that good sense? You'd be welcome here.
Sure. :) I can't say I'd be reliable or timely though.
Hey, this is DJ! We pride ourselves on our unreliability and procrastination. Email dBO for keys to the castle or however you want to do it.
Mandos:Sorry, been hit with that argument too many times not to start believing it comes from Dippers and vented accordingly, call it a symptom of just how much pain the results of the election were causing. As to the rest of your response, I was never truly anti-CPC, I was anti-Harper, the CPC under his leadership was equally toxic, but if he had been held to another minority it is likely he would not have held onto power within the party and another leader might have emerged who was while still on the conservative side a bit more respectful of basic Canadian political traditions and laws, which since for me process issues are of serious importance would have been a drastic improvement.This is what people never understood about me, I was never a partisan of a party, I was an opponent of a man whose vision of Canada was of GOP bastion North, and the Dick Cheney vision of it at that. Now I get to see just how much damage he can and will do, and given that I have been warning about this since before he even came to lead a CPC party he helped create in deceit and treachery along with traitor MacKay this is a very bitter time for me, especially when the defenders of principles progressive and democracy who I used to be able to rely on to actually practice what they preach became led by a man whose lust for power and seats was more important than stopping the greatest threat those principles have ever seen.I also would add that while it is important to look to the future to face what comes, it is equally important to gaze clearly at how one has gotten there. There is a reason there is cliche about those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it after all. I am not willing to let the NDP not wear the price of their "victory", and it not out of partisanship that I do so, but out of a need to hold them to account, same as I have with the other ideologues who placed power ahead of all else, Harper being my worst fear example made manifest. I don't trust Layton, because he had to know what Harper was and would do with majority and has never wavered in his willingness to risk such in his pursuit of electoral success. I am far less convinced that what he got will last than many Dippers and other progressives appear to think, the remarkable LACK of success in the English Canada by just getting to the level they reached under Broadbent speaks to how untrusted the NDP still is there where most of the votes and seats are, that the swing voters swung Harper's way in fear of that Orange wave (because many voters simple don't pay enough attention to know who they are voting for beyond a superficial scrutiny, this election saw a CPC vote made up of not just his base but swing centrist voters who still do not realize how fundamentally outside the normal ranges of Canadian politics Harper and his kind of Conservativism is, in no small part because the NDP failed to act like he was instead spending most their time acting against their electoral rivals even after they had been out of power/office).Look, the Libs own their own share of blame in all of this, from the leader on down, never said otherwise. However, for all their faults they were the ones campaigning against the government of Harper almost exclusively in the election, the same is not true of the NDP, and to pretend that this was not a significant factor in the Lib demise and the vote splitting in Ontario that helped to give Harper his majority is something I will not do. It is too bad that the Orange wave didn't really wash over the West, where it could have actually done some good, and as for the Quebec aspect, well while the defeat of the BQ is nice, how long does it last, especially since some of those NDP elected are nationalists/separatist leaning?