Tuesday, 15 September 2009

To Iggy and the Libs: Fuck Right Off!



This is ours. Not yours. OURS.

From the PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF THAT 'LEFT-WING FRINGE' GROUP CALLED WOMEN Facebook page:
The federal Liberal Party is attempting to hijack this group for its own political purposes. We want to emphasize that this group is NON-PARTISAN.

http://www.liberal.ca/en/blog/16322_women-were-not-a-left-wing-fringe-group

We have our own blog buttons, available here -- which work for both women and men.

http://www.acreativerevolution.ca/node/2072

Appropriating our message for partisan purposes will kill our project.

You have high-priced political consultants. Let them come up with their own message.

(A message from Antonia: I did not create this group to aid any political party. I created it because women's rights, minority rights, gay rights, language rights, and disability rights have all been hampered by Harper's attack on the Court Challenges program. This group does not endorse any party or politician. Back off.)

Liberal Party rip-off blogpost.

Michael Fucking Ignatieff's Facebook page.

Link to a letter to Ignatieff from Elizabeth Pickett.

Contact info to write a pissed-off letter of your own:
Liberal Party: info@liberal.ca
M. Ignatieff: IgnatM@parl.gc.ca

44 comments:

deBeauxOs said...

One has to wonder which backroom boy/operative/opportunist whispered in Iggy's ear: "The Libs have no grass roots. Appropriate the women's message."

bigcitylib said...

So I heard about the group through Liberal sources, and tend to support the LPoC federally. Does this mean I shouldn't join up?

fern hill said...

bigcitylib, join, don't join. Up to you.

Thing is, it is NOT partisan. I resent the hell out of the Libs' attempt to co-opt it. It was totally grassroots, netroots, blogosphere. The Liberals can't just waltz in and claim it.

The Cons will spin it as a Liberal thing. They'll try to tie LEAF to the Libs. They'll attack LEAF's charitable status.

Please, urge your party to back off.

lr said...

would this logo have been popular without the liberal party support!??!? mmm..I don't think so! Sorry!

alterwords said...

If you want to support LEAF and you're pissed at Harper, join up. Then tell the Libs to leave us alone. The group is NOT affiliated with any party but is clearly a little pissed with HarpyCon.

AKA Elizabeth Pickett

http://twitter.com/Canadianmom said...

I don't think there is anything wrong with the liberals showing support for women or this group. It's about time... especially if Igantieff keeps any election promises.

Please don't try to marginalize this group or alienated anyone. Too much is at stake.

The women's vote clearly did not put Harper in office (and is also why he was so ready to cut daycare funding on his first day in office despite real world programs showing high returns for each dollar invested).

If the liberals are willing to change the tide and undo all the damage done to women's rights by the Harper minority, why shouldn't we encourage them or any of the other parties to do so?

alterwords said...

The group CANNOT be associated with any party - we're raising money for LEAF and LEAF can't take money from a group associated with a political party. That's the MAIN POINT. But along with that, over 1000 women joined the group WITHOUT the support of the Liberals and not wanting to associate themselves with the party. Hijacking the group is crass political opportunism and does nothing at all to increase my confidence that the Libs give any more of a shite about women than the Cons. There's only one thing that could increase my confidence at this point and that's if the Libs back the fuck off!

bigcitylib said...

"Please, urge your party to back off."

What is this supposed to mean, precisely?

fern hill said...

bigcitylib, write to the Liberal contacts in the post. Tell them, if you think so, that their support is appreciated, but the co-option is not. Or blog on it.

Scott Tribe gets it.

janfromthebruce said...

"I don't think there is anything wrong with the liberals showing support for women or this group."

Oh, like the support of James Curran - big time liberal - where he uses sexuality objectifying picture of a woman to make his political point. Exploitation is exploitation.
Layton Supports New Harper Coalition

Christian said...

fern hill, I followed your links, and unless I'm missing something, simply because I wasn't granted access, I don't see what you're outraged about.

A party is reaching out, and the best you come up with is foff? What happened? Did Iggy threaten abortions?

fern hill said...

Christian, I don't know what you mean by not granted access.

The Liberals are trying to co-opt a grassroots, non-partisan effort for their own political purposes. And in the process giving the Cons a stick to beat LEAF with and endangering LEAF's charitable status.

Hit the link to Scott Tribe above.

Anonymous said...

The Liberals support of Bill C-10 is what kills me. That bill was an attack on Women and Iggy was all for it. SCREW YOU AND FUCK OFF!!!

bigcitylib said...

Fern,

Sorry but you're babbling. The Liberal Party has done a couple of concrete things online via the Ignatieff facebook and elsehwere. Which of these would you want discontinued/altered?

Like, do you want the Libs to withdraw their endorsement of the site? Change the button? What?

fern hill said...

bigcitylib, gee thanks, babbling am I?

Why don't you inform yourself about the history and complexity of the story? Here, try this.

bigcitylib said...

Fern,

I read that previously and it doesn't really help.

The only thing I can possibly imagine being offensive about the Lib appeal is if they are funneling traffic to the site through Iggy's Facebook site as an intermediary. Is that what's happening? You could ask them to stop.

If not then what? Are you hassling Greens and Dippers this bad?

fern hill said...

Hassling? Jeebers.

As far as I know, the Greens and Dippers are not trying to usurp this NON-PARTISAN effort.

If they were, yes, I would.

And don't get me started on Lizzy 'Nuance R Us' May. ;)

Anonymous said...

The used the organization in their press release Bigcitylib linking the organizations in the media and public eye. When they had not right too and never should have.

deBeauxOs said...

Christian, some of those links may lead to other links that may require logging onto Facebook. I'm not a FB member, so I don't have access either.

bigcitylib - Here's an example of the way the Libs could have been supportive of the "Proud member of that 'left wing fringe' group: Women". Female Lib MPs could have approached their counterparts in the NDP and BQ and suggested all female opposition MPs wear the LEAF buttons.

Do the Libs not allow women in their inner sanctum who can challenge the boys' club when it doesn't understand how inapropriate a course of action is? It's called a reality check.

And as for 'hassling' the other opposition parties in the House of Commons, please tell me if they also tried to appropriate this grass roots campaign with the same sense of entitlement the LPC just attempted to do?

West End Bound said...

Are you hassling Greens and Dippers this bad?

That doesn't appear to be necessary, as those parties have not attempted to co-opt the movement . . . .

Christian said...

fern hill, apparently my browser issue has been partially resolved. But Scott's link is not working. So again, what exactly is the problem? You simply despise Liberals?

fern hill said...

Christian, FCS, read what I and others have written.

The Liberals are hijacking our efforts for THEIR purposes. They didn't ask. They just hijacked.

But, yeah, I despise Liberals when they behave like this. And they often behave like this.

Impolitical said...

Maybe you could update your post, Fern. Read the update at the Facebook site, communication from Jill Fairbrother in Ignatieff's office:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=158293757743

Would appreciate it. As a Liberal, I find myself uncomfortably the target of your post when we are all here for the same reasons.

Christian said...

Okay fern. Hope you and the rest of the left wing friends get over yourselves in time to save our country.

fern hill said...

Hiya, Impolitical,
I'll update my post when the Liberal Party publicly backs off. Not just on Facebook.

Like here for starters.

impolitical said...

I'm not sure what more you need, Antonia seemed to accept the statement without imposing conditions (although I don't know any other details). She can speak to that. The fight seems to be over.

fern hill said...

OK, let's see what the Cons make of this. I bet they go into attack mode: 'Liberals support feminazi special interest groups. Feminazi special interest groups -- with charitable status -- are in bed with Liberals.'

Then the Libs will have to go into damage-control: 'Well, we totally resolved this on Facebook. Really.'

If nothing comes of it, I'll update.

Fair enough?

LibArtsandMinds said...

How odd that you don't see you are undermining the very cause you are fighting for.

Doesn't matter who you support politically, but having political support is usually crucial for grassroots movements.

Your attack makes no sense, as women attacking women rarely does.

It's your political stripes that are showing here...no one else's.

fern hill said...

Ah, all those commenters with 'lib' or 'liberal' in their handles are not showing any political stripes.

Right.

Just how am I undermining the cause by demanding that it remain non-partisan and un-hijacked?

What women have I attacked?

You make no sense.

The Mound of Sound said...

How odd indeed LAM. Fern's histrionics suggest someone has a wild hair growing in their arse. I for one can't stomach any of these clowns. Maybe it's enough that we unite behind the belief that Harper is the worst of the lot.

LlibArtsandMinds said...

Um, me in that last comment...need I go on?

fern hill said...

This is just getting silly.

LAM, you're an XX are you? Geez, I didn't realize. And so, my bitching about the Liberal Party attacks you?

I'm gonna go have a coupla pops. I'm done here for now.

Beijing York said...

Wow! Makes you wonder whether the LPC as an entity would have jumped on board so quickly if this initiative was started on Rabble or Straight Goods. Sorry, but it does strike me as very opportunistic. Antonia is a Toronto Star columnist and her voice is heard by many who might not be dubbed as left wing extremists. Seems like a safe place to start.

I have no problems with LPC members, MPs and supporters alike, joining the cause. Hell, the party could encourage their members to join this cause. But to make the move that they did as a political party does seem very much like hijacking what is a non-partisan, grass roots movement.

deBeauxOs said...

I suppose that for people who have become accustomed to entitlements, it's difficult to see the forest for the trees.

Let me say this as simply as possible. A handful, then an armful of female anger and creative energy fuelled what felt like a good beginning on a groundswell movement.

Then some weasel/operative/backroom boy in the LPC saw the grassroots enthusiasm and work-in-progress as a political opportunity. Instead of doing as women who have been drawn to, and pulled into this movement have done, the LPC hivemind tried to use it.

The appropriate approach, expressed with humility and openness would have been to ask the loose network of partners in this endeavour how to also become part of it and how to support it. And to wait, and listen to the response.

Is that too much to expect?

Scott in Montreal said...

I think the lesson here is that once something is unleashed unto the internets, if it's a good idea it will be latched onto by all kinds of people and groups that the originator cannot control. This is just how these things grow.

I find it difficult to understand how it is being co-opted when Iggy's FB page expressly suggests its audience take up "their" cause, with links provided to the original source. Whatever entity or person wishes to champion your cause should be taken with appreciative grace. If you require distance from any person or group supporting you, all that is needed is a disclaimer, no?

DM, IMHO, if you don't reel this baby in soon - with its highly provocative slant - then you will indeed have a cause celebre for the ReformaCons to beat everyone with faster than you can shake a crazy stick.

bgrice said...

I guess I am confused. Maybe someone could answer my questions here without jumping down my throat.

1. This groups was started in response to a speech given by Prime Minster Harper. A speech that was only released to the public because a Liberal Party member videotaped it, and it was released to the media by the Liberal Party of Canada. This seems to imply at least some involvement by the LPC in this issue before your group started. Am I wrong?
2. There has been discussion here of concern over LEAF funding being at risk because of LPC involvement in this issue. If LEAF is so concerned about its funding being cut off by the Conservative Party, why is it participating in overt political attacks on Stephen Harper and his government. I fail to see how LPC support could threaten LEAF more than its direct attacks on Harper. Can someone explain that to me please?
3. MPs of all political stripes often wear badges, buttons or ribbons in support of various causes in the House of Commons. Pink Ribbons, Yellow Ribbons, hell, even seal skin on occasion. The Breast Cancer people don’t get upset when the LPC wears a pink ribbon. Why are you getting upset?

I supported this cause when it started because I agreed with the premise that Stephen Harper hates this country, and its citizens, as he demonstrated by attacking Women as a fringe group. If I had known that my gender and political affiliation offended the organizers of this group to the point where I would be told to “fuck off” for that support, I wouldn’t have done so. Next time you start a “grassroots” movement, you may want to post the membership guidelines on the site first.

P.S. Antonia asked me to take my concerns off twitter earlier today in order to protect LEAF, a request I honoured. I have not written a blog entry about this issue in the spirit of that request. Having read this blog entry, which is linked directly from the facebook page, the complete and utter lack of respect displayed here is seriously making me wonder why I have honoured the spirit of that request.

janfromthebruce said...

So are you suggesting that because the liberals released the video of Harper that in turn, the liberals are entitled to co-op this non-partisan group as a liberal offshoot?
Just trying to understand the belief underlying the concern expressed.

fern hill said...

Jan, that's how it sounds to me.

Me, I'm just tired of this. My co-blogger, deBeauxOs, three or four comments up, sums it up very well. Political parties, in this case the Liberals, just don't get grassroots movements and they really don't get women's movements. They think we'll be grateful for their 'help' (=co-option) and they get all offended when we say, no, thanks, we're doing fine here.

And, by the looks of it, they go ballistic when one of us uses somewhat stronger language than 'no, thanks'. :)

deBeauxOs said...

bgrice:

1) By characterizing women's anger at the LPC's ill-advised action as "jumping down your throat" you imply that there are two types of anger: yours which is legitimate and ours, which is isn't.

2) This started because Stevie's words struck a nerve. A big part of this campaign is fuelled by anger and shaped by creative, constructive energy. The LPC action of using, yes using the work that women had done was opportunistic.

3) In the normal world, not the entitled, exalted world in which political operatives spin their webs, people who want to be part of something that is already in movement ask how they can be involved. They don't just take what they want.

4) You did as a woman requested you to do because the action your party took was potentially harmful to a woman's organization. That is a normal, civil response. I don't see how that obliges DJ! to remove what we wrote in reaction to the LPC maneuver.

5) You say you are confused. Try stepping outside the lib hive-mind and read the blogs at Progressive Bloggers that led to the creation of this campaign. Many men, non-partisan men, have been supportive and encouraging. They did not try to co-opt this movement to their advantage.

6) Accept responsibility for the fact the LPC acted in haste and without respect for those who developed and who co-ordinate this campaign.

http://twitter.com/Canadianmom said...

"Anonymous said...

The Liberals support of Bill C-10 is what kills me. That bill was an attack on Women and Iggy was all for it. SCREW YOU AND FUCK OFF!!!"
--

You have a point, but remember it was moment of dire economic crisis, and before he did Ignatieff clearly said "this is not a perfect bill" and added that he believed the attack on women was one of the main problems with it. That is what he said before agreeing to it rather than hold up the stimulus funding. It was implied that this is not something he would support in the long run. Why didn't they demand an amendment at the time I'm not certain, but I give him the benefit of the doubt that given first chance the they would act to right this wrong.

I think we thank any members of parliament independent or otherwise who would show support especially if they are willing to back it up with action.

If the charity selected makes it impossible to accept the unofficial support of any party or political group I can accept and understand that.

btw. if it had not have been for Ignatieff suggesting people to join this group I or the friends I told would not have heard about it when we did. Perhaps he deserves a thank you for that.
Unfortunately this negativity is making me feel a lot less happy about buying the t-shirts I had planned to buy...which saddens me because it's such a happy positive image.

I noticed the ndp is being supported on antonia's twitter page today. I voted for ndp last election even if I am well aware that did not help, (not will it help) remove Mr. Harper from power if it did give him a minority.

On twitter i follow several parties including the green party, with notable the exception of the conservative. (I find @fakesteveharper much more entertaining for what it's worth.)

all the best.

bgrice said...

Actually, I meant that if *I* asked civilised questions on your comments page, would you take my well intentioned questions and try to attack *me* for them. The answer, obviously, is yes. I had no malicious intent in asking the questions I did, these were the questions I would have asked Antonia on Twitter yesterday had she not ended the conversation for fear LEAF’s funding. Your anger at me for simply asking questions seems extreme.

I did what Antonia asked me to do because I respect Antonia. But respect does not equal blind obedience.

In the normal world, as you put it, most political action groups don’t publicly attack their largest political ally for supporting them. The real story yesterday was the tweet MP James Moore made calling the support of Women in the House of Commons immature. Yet the opportunity to further indicate the lack of respect and concern that the Harper government has for women was wasted in favour of attacking your allies. That confuses me.

I am one of the Progressive Bloggers, I don’t live in the Liberal Hive Mind, and my confusion is shared by a great many people across this country right now. Your organization would be well advised to start building some bridges, quickly, before that confusion translates into the withdrawal of support.

deBeauxOs said...

bgrice:

It is perplexing that you claim my replies to your questions are an "attack" on *you*.

I have re-read what I wrote. It was not intended as an attack, I provided *you* with information that you seemed to lack, I suggested other reading and I affirmed what was written at DJ! at the moment the issue was raised.

If you don't identify with the actions that were taken by the LPC, I don't understand then why this blogpost is so upsetting for you.

As to your advice regarding bridges, it appears somewhat arrogant on your part to counsel others regarding alliance-building strategies when your leader is clearly against doing so, unless there is something that has occured since he last spoke out against the coalition that was created in December?

jj said...

Janfromthebruce said: "So are you suggesting that because the liberals released the video of Harper that in turn, the liberals are entitled to co-op this non-partisan group as a liberal offshoot?"

Are we sure that's what happened?

Honest question -- I started following this somewhat belatedly and I don't really get what's going on.

Are Liberals promoting it as *their* idea or just *an idea* that they happen to support?

fern hill said...

As the Liberal Party has now officially acknowledged the group's non-partisan status, apparently some people felt its actions and intentions needed clarification.

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