Wednesday, 3 June 2009

Anti-Abortionists in Disarray

LifeShite has its panties twisted over remarks from Daniel Maguire, former Jesuit priest and current professor of theology at Marquette University, which, like Notre Dame University, is Catlick.

He posted the following at The Religious Consultation:
It has become American policy to use torture, bombing, and killing to achieve our ends. George Tiller believed that women must be able to exercise their legal and constitutional right to abortion in problem pregnancies. For honoring the law of the land, he and his family and medical staff were for years tortured, even bombed, and now he is now killed. He is not the first doctor to so die and unless we get serious about this form of terrorism, he will not be the last. Religious and political leaders who fan the flames of anti-choice, anti-woman fanaticism are not without guilt.

Powerful stuff.

12 comments:

Scary Fundamentalist said...

I and many other pro-lifers been saying the same thing: Using disrespectful and dehumanizing tactics against abortion providers will only breed violence in a couple followers who are unbalanced enough to take things a step further. I'll go on record to denounce Operation Rescue's strategies.

But you and your like are gleefully tarring the entire movement with the same brush. You argue that the pro-life position and lawbreaking go hand-in-hand, and therefore can easily be rejected.

Plenty of worthy movements around the world had (or have) fanatical elements who committed heinous crimes. That doesn't invalidate the movement nor absolve the crime.

fern hill said...

First, there is no 'glee' here over Dr Tiller's death.

Second, the 'lone nutter theory' doesn't wash.

The deliberate demonization of Dr Tiller and other providers of perfectly legal medical services by the likes of Randall Terry and Bill O'Reilly and Pavone and all the others over the DECADES has created a climate in which many, many from your side feel justified in carrying out arson, bombings, assault, stalking, vandalism, and murder. Hell, they drive cars into clinics and super-glue the doorlocks.

Finally, finally, what we feminists have been saying for years is being recognized in the mainstream media. Fundamentalists are scary and their whipping up of this issue has lethal consequences.

deBeauxOs said...

We're not 'gleefully tarring the entire movement with the same brush. You argue that the pro-life position and lawbreaking go hand-in-hand, and therefore can easily be rejected.'

That's your interpretation of the criticism and observations that we've been expressing even before Dr Tiller was executed.

We are asking politicians and legal authorities to consider how incorrectly - though deliberately - calling physicians who legally practice a medical intervention "murderers" can incite individuals with a fragile grasp of reality to commit acts of terror.

Scary Fundamentalist said...

If many, many from "my side" feel justified in carrying out crimes, I think you'd see a lot more violence. Funny thing is, I don't remember any such violence when 10,000 of them got together in Ontario last month.

The "glee" is not in Tiller's death, but rather in the opportunity to justify hatred and dehumanization of your ideological opponents. After all, if they are ALL culpable of murder, it's okay to despise and dismiss them, rather than make any effort to understand their position or work with them.

Scary Fundamentalist said...

We are asking politicians and legal authorities to consider how incorrectly - though deliberately - calling physicians who legally practice a medical intervention "murderers" can incite individuals with a fragile grasp of reality to commit acts of terror.

Would you feel the same about those who label any supporter of Israel a murderer?

That's your interpretation of the criticism and observations that we've been expressing even before Dr Tiller was executed.

I guess you aren't quite as vitriolic as the Unrepentant Old Hippie, but it's hard not to get that impression from comments such as "Unfortunately, HATE winds up the donation crank in the shrieeekkking masses..."

fern hill said...

Oh, we do vitriol quite well here.

Again with the Israel shiny object.

As for the violence done by your side, it is documented, occasionally here too.

We despised but did not dismiss our opponents well before the most recent events.

(I have a feeling that Scary might become tedious, but I'm letting him or her have a go. For now.)

Scary Fundamentalist said...

I come to places like these to better understand the arguments of my ideological opponents, to build some respect between the sides, and to seek common ground on how to avoid things like Tiller's murder. If that's tedious for you, then maybe I'm in the wrong place.

"Again with the Israel shiny object."

I'm not baiting, and I apologize if my wording made you suspicious. I'm asking DeBeauxOs a very simple question - under what conditions is it acceptable to publicly label someone a murderer when they have not been convicted of murder? You can't ask politicians and legal authorities to take action unless they are equipped with a clearly defined and nondiscriminatory mandate.

There is a big difference between a healthy skepticism and outright derision for one's opponents. The former condemns particular ideals, while the latter condemns the people that hold them. It's almost impossible to have a productive conversation with someone you hate.

fern hill said...

OK, Scary. But let me suggest that you browse around here in the archives for a while before throwing out questions that may well be answered elsewhere. You'd also get a sense of the tone of the blog, which is not always in deadly earnest. If you're interested in understanding, that is.

Scary Fundamentalist said...

...not always in deadly earnest.

Point taken. I never would have guessed that by your blog header :)

jj said...

Oh please, I'm vitriolic?

That's pretty fucking rich coming from someone who identifies with a "movement" that for years on end lovingly nurtured and teased out an entire culture of vitriol and seething hatred targeting a doctor.

Then when one of you finally acts on the rhetoric, the rest of you all run and squeal "It wasn't our fault!"

Only one man pulled the trigger. But the entire anti-choice movement went all out to foster the culture of hate that drove him to it. Have some balls, man up and own up.

Anonymous said...

Scary Fundamentalist - in your position I would think that "Oh Lord I am sorry for what happened in my name." would be the appropriate response. Beyond that all you say is an attempt to rationalize an irrational act.

croghan27

deBeauxOs said...

Scary Fundamentalist asked: "...under what conditions is it acceptable to publicly label someone a murderer when they have not been convicted of murder? You can't ask politicians and legal authorities to take action unless they are equipped with a clearly defined and nondiscriminatory mandate."

I will say it again: A physician who practices a legal medical intervention is not a murderer nor a criminal. That profession is regulated; abortion is not illegal in Kansas.

Yet Randall Terry deliberately uses specific language which seemingly has incited his followers to engage in criminal behaviour.

His judicious exploitation of people's religious beliefs is predicated on his ability to provoke highly charged emotional responses, which is a successful marketing technique. Fanning the flames of hatred towards the staff of women's health clinics has been a highly profitable business entreprise for him.

If you had been reading the testimonials in support of Dr Tiller as a skilled, caring physician, you might have considered how wrong and vile has been the characterization that people like Bill O'Reilly have propagated about him.

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